Curse

AnnaCloud9 · Mar 08, 2006, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Hello

I wanted to gather as many issues everyone has had regarding Henchman behavior into one post, so list actual problems our henchmen have in regards to game mechanics, and not our dislike for certain ones (since they all react mechanically equal in regards to their programming). The only skill/spell I'd like to see listed is resurrection related only, since several issues arise from that set (we all know Dunham uses Distortion repeatedly, and that Orion uses Fire Storm after everything is dead, but these aren't actual mechanics issues, just poor AI skill configuration

)

1) In regards to the Resurrection skills/spells:
A) If your party includes 2 healer henchmen, they will both try to resurrect the same target simultaneously
B) If you yourself are resurrecting one of the 2 healer henchman, the other healer will simultaneously attempt to resurrect the same target, rather than another fallen party member
C) Using Resurrection (particularly Mhenlo) after a complete party wipe and reviving at the nearest shrine
D) 1 of the 2 healer henchman running entirely out of the aggro bubble, and sometimes even radar range, to resurrect the other fallen healer, rather than resurrecting the closest fallen party member inches away

2) In regards to morale boosts/signet recharge:
A) Henchmen take death penalties just like the rest of us, but do not benefit from morale boosts, thus are unable to recharge their resurrection signets
B) Henchmen do not recover from death penalty over time

3) In regards to mechanics/behavior:
A) When selecting your henchmen in an outpost, regardless of what order you select them, once you leave the outpost the order is completely scrambled, thus placing your sensative targets sometimes in front (such as casters) and your warriors in the rear
B) Pathfinding - Upon approach of a large mob of creatures which may wrap around an obstacle or bridge, when you turn to backtrack, henchmen may sometimes continue and 'meet you on the other side' rather than follow your path the way you came
C) Fleeing 1 - Typical when your character is a distance fighter, when you turn to flee, 75% of your henchmen stay behind well beyond radar range, only to break combat after they have suffered roughly 90% damage
D) Fleeing 2 - Typical when you are of any character type, but especially a caster, when a mob surrounds the entire party, and you are targeted and are taking serious damage, you attempt to move behind your henchman fighters, only to watch them run ahead of you and break combat. Thus you are still taking damage, and are now being targeted by their former targets.
E) Area of Effect - Henchmen (particularly casters) are still not responding to AoE spells such as Maelstrom, Chaos Storm, and even Searing Heat. Rather than avoid these spells much like our enemy counterparts, they will gleefully invite masochistic suicide

Thanks for your time, and feel free to add/dispute/discuss anything above. Please stay along the same topic. We all know henchmen can be frustrating given their particular skill sets, but again, that's just poor configuration, and not an actual behavioral issue. If their is another skill that could be addressed that has mechanics issues, please add to the list and explain. Thanks everyone

fiery · Mar 08, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

I dunno about the DP part, i had 45% DP doing henchie queen run with 4 other henchies, all died and ressed up. Around 25 scarabs around there and we took them on no problem. Actually I died and the henchies killed rest. Either they have way alot of life or dunno but we finished it and 2 staffs dropped

. 5 Man queen run rocks.

calamitykell · Mar 08, 2006, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnnaCloud9

D) 1 of the 2 healer henchman running entirely out of the aggro bubble, and sometimes even radar range, to resurrect the other fallen healer, rather than resurrecting the closest fallen party member inches away

While I agree with everything in your post regarding AI, what I quoted I have to point out. When this happens, and Alesia runs into a mob of 15 to rez someone, rather than wait for the group to eliminate the threat... it pisses me off to no end. The only solution is to not bring Monk henchies AT ALL.

Fix this, ANet, please. It absolutely makes me NOT enjoy playing when I have to deal with that.

Celdor Nailo · Mar 08, 2006, 05:33 PM // 17:33

I believe the very first thing that needs to be fixed in GW is making the healer henchmen heal. I don't choose healers to be tanks.

EternalTempest · Mar 08, 2006, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Gaile has mentioned they are working on the AI for the henchmen, I personally love when I have to keep Alesia alive (as another heal / protect monk).

Diablo™ · Mar 08, 2006, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Just give us the ability to command them.

XvArchonvX · Mar 08, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diablo™

Just give us the ability to command them.

I for one would be perfectly content with a setting to tell henchmen whether I want to be at the front or back during a battle. Running as a healer with henchmen is useless since they all expect you to tank for them...

As for the origional poster, gj on catching the major issues with henchies. One thing I didn't really see mentioned though, was when a whole party is dead and spread out except for one healer/prot henchman, they will run back and forth for long periods of time unable to decide who to rez. Also if there is a dead party member surrounded by enemies and the healer/prot henchie is near by, they will often run as close as they can to they dead ally without aggroing, then run away, then run back over and over until they finally aggro all the enemies...

AnnaCloud9 · Mar 08, 2006, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

One thing I didn't really see mentioned though, was when a whole party is dead and spread out except for one healer/prot henchman, they will run back and forth for long periods of time unable to decide who to rez. Also if there is a dead party member surrounded by enemies and the healer/prot henchie is near by, they will often run as close as they can to they dead ally without aggroing, then run away, then run back over and over until they finally aggro all the enemies...

You are absolutely right about that

I didn't want an enormous post just from me, so thanks for your input and also mentioning that quirk as well. I knew I wasn't alone when it came to our sadist henchfolk.

And having even simple commands like Diablo stated, such as 'Stay Put' or 'Hold Ground', would be most welcomed. Ever find it frustrating trying to grab a patrol mob using your flatbow (or whatever

) only to have your fleet-of-foot warrior henchfolk invoke 'Charge' and gather not just that 3-person mob, but the 6-8 pack you were so dilligently trying to avoid?

WasAGuest · Mar 08, 2006, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diablo™

Just give us the ability to command them.

I can't understand why we still don't have this feature.
Taking henchmen is almost getting pointless to a point, unless you simply want fodder for the mobs to hit on while you (I) do all the killing... and even this doesn't work all the time. Someone already mentioned trying to move away from danger so as not to die, and your henchies try to flee or move with you. Even calling the targets to your henchies doesn't lock them in place.
Simply put, we need commands and a way to make them work as they need too. AI just wont cut it, especially when the mob AI keeps getting better (a good thing), yet henchies stay dumb as rocks (a bad thing).
This even brings up another AI issue with henchies and mobs. How is it, henchy healers suicide to heal, yet mob healers don't? Why is it, the little roaches (scarabs) work better in a group then the henchies do? Why is it, the mob archers target and interupt casters all the time, yet henchy rangers/mesmers seem to never (I've never seen them do it) interupt mob casters? See... mob AI (which are mostly "creatures" have a higher IQ then "human" henchies...) is higher than the henchy AI. Sooo, Uh, can I hire mob henchmen instead? PLEASE?

NevynZeddicus · Mar 08, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

I agree about the commands, especially when I play a healer. I don't really enjoy having to stay at the front, making myself the target of every critters aggression. I have tried attacking and pulling back before I actually wand at them, but the henchies don't seem to get the idea.

Another thing, and this may not be mechanical, but when I go down, they all fall over themselves to be the first to use their rez sig on me unless the protector hench is there. Usually if I go down, its because I got caught right in the middle of the action, which *duh* is not a good place to be when you are trying to heal.

Thanks for putting up with me, carry on.

Mavrik · Mar 08, 2006, 09:16 PM // 21:16

I wish there was a /stay command for hench. Pulling is hard as they like to charge on ahead the moment I attack something to draw back to a safe area.

Count to Potato · Mar 08, 2006, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavrik

I wish there was a /stay command for hench. Pulling is hard as they like to charge on ahead the moment I attack something to draw back to a safe area.

Henchman are so hard to control this happeneds to me many times,

Im test running different places with henchies as meat shields, my healers die a way back and all i have are the two wars henchman, i die but the henchman stay alive but then they go back and forth trying tio res me and the healers so i get stuck and have to go all the way back....

ducktape · Mar 08, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnnaCloud9

2) In regards to morale boosts/signet recharge:
A) Henchmen take death penalties just like the rest of us, but do not benefit from morale boosts, thus are unable to recharge their resurrection signets
B) Henchmen do not recover from death penalty over time

Really? I've never heard that they don't get morale boosts or can't recover from death penalty. I don't see why they would have henchmen affected differently like that, but I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case, since we can't see their HP numbers or their DP/Morale indicator icons (either of which would be a big help). If henchmen can't get morale boosts and can't recover from DP, that's totally stupid and it should be changed.

And basic henchman controls (Stay, Heal, Attack, Retreat) would be a godsend

Caelus The Fallen · Mar 08, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Some observations of mine:
Warrior hanchmen will not use their heal signet if they are losing health from degen. Too often have I watched Thom/Stefan die *after* a battle has concluded because they were poisoned/bleeding/diseased.
Further, the healer henchmen seem reluctant to repsond to degen with anything other than regen. This is particularly noticable in the new scarab infested Prophets Path. Get Poisoned and Diseased by the Scarabs while in Well of the Profane, and watch as the healers do absolutley nothing (they cant healing breeze and wont orison.. and Lina is just useless at this point).

Keeper of Birds · Mar 08, 2006, 10:02 PM // 22:02

I would also like to see some basic awareness of their environment. For example, you stop on an island in the middle of the poison water to catch your breath. Henches stand in the poison. Same with lava- henches feel no desire to get the heck out of it, even though it is killing them rather quickly. This last makes capping some of those hard to find skills in RoF with henches much more difficult than it needs to be.

Ensign · Mar 08, 2006, 10:35 PM // 22:35

I run with henchies quite a bit to complete things (despite their AI problems they're still more reliable than PUGs). I think I'm pretty adept at controlling them. But a few things are still problematic:

1) Dowright atrocious resurrection priorities. Whenever one of the monk henchies stops healing for a combat Restore Life you can't do anything but cringe. When Alesia charges into melee range for a combat Restore Life on a warrior henchie you prepare for the wipe. In theory all the other henchmen have resurrection signets, but you'd never know that because they don't use the bloody things. They won't even think about using one until all the monks and player characters with res skills are dead, then they use one just to help build DP on a monk henchie. I have never seen those sigs do anything else.

I know a lot of players are incompetent and want to save sigs like that, but simply put they are wrong. Sigs are used in combat to prevent wipes. When someone dies one of the henchies should res him with a sig immediately, korean style. The monk henchies need to only use Restore Life outside of combat, but honestly they should just not use it period if a living player has a hard res. The AI is downright incompetent with it and oftentimes it's just a 'commit suicide' skill.

2) It is nigh-impossible to escape from a bad pull. You can turn tail and run, but any henchie that has some aggro will happily sit there swinging even if you're half a radar away. This is a hard thing to deal with because you don't want warriors breaking aggro just because a caster player is kiting in the back. But it's still problematic because you have to play flawlessly or fail.

3) Touch range skills on melee characters. Claude running up to Blood Ritual the warriors is oftentimes a turning point in a battle that starts off an ugly chain of events (Claude rambos it up to Blood Ritual Thom, mobs destroy the squishy necro sacrificing himself in front, Alesia stops healing and rambos it up to res Claude, party wipes). Alesia is guilty of this as well, ramboing it up to Healing Touch a warrior. Clean up the AI to not use these skills on people attacking with melee weapons, please.

4) There is no healing response to degen, just Breeze. If you're sitting there at no health degenning out they won't even think about hitting you with a Word until something smacks you. People under degen but not taking hits aren't exactly priority targets so this isn't a terrible AI routine, but letting characters degen to death is just retarded.

Peace,
-CxE

Esprit · Mar 08, 2006, 10:57 PM // 22:57

The AI running script fails to factor in that lava, in the Ring of Fire missions, hurts. All the AI script sees is that the lava is a plane that can be moved across, just like regular ground. Time and time again I've walked next to the lava with the henchmen, only for half of them to go tromping through it. I've seen henchmen monks die in the pools because they stand in it to heal the rest of the henchies who were walking through it.

Mister Overhill · Mar 08, 2006, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keeper of Birds

I would also like to see some basic awareness of their environment. For example, you stop on an island in the middle of the poison water to catch your breath. Henches stand in the poison. Same with lava- henches feel no desire to get the heck out of it, even though it is killing them rather quickly. This last makes capping some of those hard to find skills in RoF with henches much more difficult than it needs to be.

/signed They should have corrected that long ago.

Lowly Peasant · Mar 08, 2006, 11:04 PM // 23:04

I'd like to see the henchmen given some better skills, like Stefan, the way he loves to use power attack and griffon sweep, he would make a perfect Flourish warrior, have him spam power attack, griffon sweep, pure strick, and seeking blade then use flourish. This would make him far more useful than he is now since he often does no damage. Also how about a better stance than Balanced stance, maybe Defencive stance.

Thom is ok IMO, Thom can at least solo Rockshots unlike Stefan. Claude on the other hand needs to be changed up. He primarily uses blood so why not have him use BiP (since he seems to enjoy suiciding, at least this way he can do it in the back near the healers), Well of Power, or even better Life Transfer.

I think that Reyna should be given at least 1 interrupt skill, maybe Punishing Shot later on in the game. Dunham needs to be able to interrupt at least some or deal more damage or effects. Clumsiness would be a good skill to add to his skill line, and maybe Migraine or Crippling Anguish for his Elite.

Orion needs a complete overhaul since the anti-AoE patch. He always casts Firestorm when you really don't want it, although he tends to cast it right as his target dies 90% of the time. There's quite a few skills he could use instead such as incendiary bonds or Rodgort's Invocation. And since he has so much trouble with energy management later in the game he could use Elemental Attunement.

Diablo™ · Mar 08, 2006, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keeper of Birds

I would also like to see some basic awareness of their environment. For example, you stop on an island in the middle of the poison water to catch your breath. Henches stand in the poison. Same with lava- henches feel no desire to get the heck out of it, even though it is killing them rather quickly. This last makes capping some of those hard to find skills in RoF with henches much more difficult than it needs to be.

Alesia: "OOMFG THIS LAVA IS BURNING ME ALIVE!!1! But I must continue to stand here and remain calm and stare at the leader..."